MADELEINE BRAND, host:
Among those thinking ahead to the future of Haiti is William O'Neill. He's a human rights lawyer and an adviser to the United Nations. He visited Haiti in December, just before the earthquake. He thinks the disaster could open up some opportunities.
Mr. WILLIAM O'NEILL (Human Rights Lawyer; Adviser, United Nations): What we're seeing right now is a fairly significant exodus from Port-au-Prince, which I think is a good thing. Port-au-Prince was extremely overcrowded; 10 times as many people there as it was meant to ever accommodate. So I think if many of these people end up able to stay in the countryside - reestablish and have meaningful lives out in the countryside - that will also ease, in a way, some of the challenges facing Port-au-Prince.
BRAND: But if they are in the countryside, that means they will have to have jobs in the countryside. And isn't that the reason why they went to Port-au-Prince in the first place, is they had no work?
Mr. O'NEILL: Yes, and that is also going to be a major component, I hope, of Haiti's reconstruction. In a way, it's - all of us should really be thinking about reimagining Haiti. Obviously, that's first of all up to the Haitians. But Haiti, until quite recently, was overwhelmingly an agricultural country, where people lived off the land, farmed and were able to survive - more than survive - and do reasonably well.
It's only in the last 30, 40 years, partly under - because of policies by Duvalier - father and son - that really made the rural life almost impossible, and a focus on the city and especially Port-au-Prince so that development aid -everyone focused on - people call it the Republic of Port-au-Prince. So much focus and emphasis and money and attention was put into Port-au-Prince and the countryside really literally withered away.
I think it's a time for everyone to reconsider: How can you reconstitute the Haitian countryside, make it a viable place where people do have options and choices? All of that is going to have to be part of this, as I'm saying, a reimagining of Haiti.
BRAND: And who will do that reimagining and who will lead the reconstruction efforts on that level?
Mr. O'NEILL: Ideally, you want to have the Haitian state take the lead. And I think there are some remnants in some of the ministries that will be able to do this. But to be honest, I mean we can't have wishful thinking here, they will need an enormous amount of help. And I don't just mean money and resources, but they will need intellectual help, expertise, skills. It can come from within Haiti.
There's extremely talented and educated folks in Haiti willing to pitch in. They've largely been marginalized by all kinds of politics and elite control of the economy, again, for all of these decades. And I hope that's something that, in a way, this earthquake may have unblocked.
And two, you have the Haitian diaspora: a large, highly educated talented group of people outside Haiti that have garnered many of the skills that will be necessary to help the country rebuild. And then clearly the international community and here, the U.S., has to play a leading, major role in all of this. I think that we can't pretend that Haiti can do this by themselves, not after such a disaster.
BRAND: You're describing something that is actually what it appears to be is an absolute reimagining of a society, of a country from the bottom up. I mean, just starting over almost.
Do you think that Haiti is capable of doing that?
Mr. O'NEILL: I think not only is it capable, but I think many, many Haitians want it. You're already hearing - I'm listening to some of the radio stations that are able to function in Port-au-Prince over the Internet - and you're already hearing people calling in saying: This did not work. This country was broken and damaged. And now is a chance, in a way, to fix it.
BRAND: Are you optimistic that this can happen this time when it obviously hasn't happened in the past?
Mr. O'NEILL: I'm thinking this is a disaster on such a scale that has created such destruction in Haiti, that in a way maybe it has literally cleared the way for the kind of new, novel, revolutionary approaches to Haiti that it might really work this time, and the unprecedented attention and support from outside.
I think it's vitally important that we have both President Clinton and Hillary Clinton, both of them deeply involved with Haiti for many years, in such key positions both internationally and in the U.S. government. And then you have, I think, the dynamism and talents of Haitians themselves, as I said both inside and outside the country, that really, I think, finally want to get their country to a place where they think it belongs after 206 years, frankly, of mostly disaster.
BRAND: William O'Neill is a lawyer specializing in humanitarian, human rights and refugee law. He advises the United Nations on conflict prevention.
Thank you very much.
Mr. O'NEILL: Thank you.
BRAND: And we have more coverage of Haiti elsewhere in the program. Also at NPR.org, you can see pictures taken by our photographers in Haiti, and you can find more news about rescue and relief efforts.