ROBERT SIEGEL, host:
There is change in the air at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. President Barack Obama's executive orders to close Guantanamo and review options forgiving the detainees will certainly affect the fate of the men held at the prison. But their futures remain murky as the details are worked out. We've had a series of conversations on the program recently about changes at Guantanamo. Today, someone who works with the detainees.
MICHELE NORRIS, host:
Joining us now is Emi MacLean. She's an attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights. Thanks so much for being with us.
Ms. EMI MACLEAN (Attorney, Center for Constitutional Rights): Thanks so much for having me.
NORRIS: Now, you represent a number of detainees at Guantanamo Bay; in fact, you were there yesterday. Could you tell us briefly what the status is?
Ms. MACLEAN: The Center for Constitutional Rights directly represents a number of individuals - around eight - and we also have been involved in the coordination of the representation of the overwhelming majority of detainees at Guantanamo. And none of our clients are charged. We are hopeful that President Obama will implement a policy where individuals are either charged and tried in federal criminal courts, or released - either to their home countries or to safe third countries. And we hope that that happens sooner rather than later because indefinite attention for seven or more years is obviously unacceptable.
NORRIS: We have talked to people in the previous administration. We talked to John Dillinger yesterday, the legal adviser to former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, and he says this assumption that the detainees that have not yet been charged, the notion that they may have been swept up erroneously, is somewhat overblown, that some of these detainees have not been charged because there are questions about evidence, not because they did nothing wrong.
Ms. MACLEAN: Well, there have been approximately 800 individuals who have been detained at Guantanamo since its inception about seven years ago. About 500 of those individuals are released. And if you look at who is there at Guantanamo now and who was there before, you can see very clearly that an individual's fate right now, whether they're at Guantanamo or whether they were released long ago, has far more to do with their nationality than with anything else - certainly than with threat assessments. All the Europeans were among the first to be released from Guantanamo because the European countries said that it is unacceptable for our citizens to be detained in indefinite detention. On the other hand, we have 100 Yemenis who are in Guantanamo now. Yemenis are not being released because the U.S. hasn't come to an agreement with the Yemeni government to transfer the Yemenis. We have 60 individuals who are stuck there from countries that are human-rights abusing countries, who can't go to their home countries because of the fear of torture or persecution. So that's the reality, and I think where there are suggestions otherwise, it is just further justification for a system that President Obama has frankly said is an unacceptable system and that it doesn't - denies credibility to the United States.
NORRIS: Now, President Obama has said that this is an unacceptable system, but Emi, you no doubt are aware of a recent report that found that a certain percentage of the detainees that were released returned to either their home country or to the receiving country and quote, took up the fight again, meaning that they were once again involved in acts of terrorism. What would you say to that?
Ms. MACLEAN: I would say, actually, listen to the press conference and not just the headline. If you listen to the press conference, the Department of Defense spokesman who gave that report and said number of people returned to the fight, when he was asked who are those people, what are the details, he said, I don't have any details, I'm not prepared to respond to that. There are a very, very, very small number of individuals who may have engaged in any anti-American activities. Frankly, most of the people just want to get on with their lives and overcome the abuse that they have experienced.
NORRIS: Do the detainees at Guantanamo know that President Barack Obama has signed these orders calling for the closure of Guantanamo Bay?
Ms. MACLEAN: Well, one of the great ironies at Guantanamo is that I cannot tell you what the detainees have told me until that information gets declassified. So, I write down all of my notes, I transfer it to a secure facility, and a review team tells me what information I can actually talk about publicly, and what information I cannot talk about publicly.
NORRIS: Because you were there over the inauguration and a period when these orders were signed, if you can't talk about the conversation with the detainees, what is the mood like at Guantanamo right now?
Ms. MACLEAN: It's a good question, and I think, you know, the guards don't really talk about politics all that much; understandably, we're not really supposed to talk about politics with them. But, you know, there was someone who was responsible for changing the picture at Guantanamo from President Bush to President Obama, which I find quite significant. And the guards, especially, sensed that change is in the air. The sense that I get from detainees is that detainees at this point feel that they will believe things when they actually see it. So, there is, I think there is, you know, some sense that there is a greater possibility of the closure of Guantanamo now than there had been before. But there is also a caution, I think, about too much hope in a place like Guantanamo.
NORRIS: Emi MacLean is an attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights. Thanks so much for coming in to talk to us.
Ms. MACLEAN: Thank you.